Why does Kinky have no competitor?

[HotCEO]

Well it is "OK" at best, I'd say as someone with web development experience.
I believe the infrastructure is pretty old and as we all understood recently, vulnerable to a mediocre hack.
The UI looks so 2000s. Listing sites have come a good way since then.

And as many here suggested, fake ads is horrible. I've been doing "paid sex" for around a year now and already for 4-5 times I experienced fake ladies that had absolutely nothing to do with the photos.

Okay thanks for explanation. There is also an option to write reviews about the ladies now, I would advise you to search for advertisements with multiple reviews to make sure it's not an fake account.

Also check the writers of the reviews, if they only have written single review I wouldn't thrust.

 

[Medford]

Is selling advertisements for unregulated prostitution illegal? Again, in a broad sense, it is. But that would then be as an accessory to assisting unregulated activities. Coincidentally that activity is prostitution, but that is entirely irrelevant. No unregulated prostitute will be fined or jailed for being a prostitute. She will get an administrative fine for failing to register herself as a self-employed worker, not paying taxes and not paying social security dues. I am not aware whether being an accessory to such matters is ever prosecuted, or if it is even possible. If you want to know, get some legal opinion from a Dutch lawyer.

There's no such thing as being an accessory to an administrative offense under Dutch law.

 

[Ancalime]

There's no such thing as being an accessory to an administrative offense under Dutch law.

Soooo it should be OK to host a site and earn money from that?

 

[Vanderlindemedia]

Hey all,

First of all, my Dutch is not good enough to ask this question so I'll stick to English, if I'm allowed.

I've been in this, well, thing, for a while but I see that Kinky is like the almost only option. I was curious why? Is it really difficult, or not allowed to make a competitor site?
If it's illegal, how do they even get the payments then etc.?

Kinky is so dominant because it's the "marktplaats" for sex. Like if you ask people where can i sell goods from my appartment, or where can i sell my car onto ? Or where can i get a mechanic to fix my leaking bathroom? They mostly refer you to go to Marktplaats.nl; it's due the branding this website pretty much has.

It's just consistent in when you advertise there for a sex company or sex worker, you'll get bookings. Period. I make websites myself and ive done quite some platforms as well that are simular:

Escorts In Holland | Escort Girls Dutch

The largest directory with real dutch escort girls for in & outcall bookings in Holland.

www.escortsinholland.com

damevoorplezier.nl - Domain Name For Sale | Dan.com

I found a great domain name for sale on Dan.com. Check it out!

www.damevoorplezier.nl

Prive2day.nl | Prostitutie Marktplaats in Nederland

De beste adressen voor prive of thuis ontvangst, erotische massage, escort dames en nog veel meer. Bekijk nu het nieuwe aanbod van vrouwen voor sex.

www.prive2day.nl

But there are a few reasons for this why these are not (yet) populair. First of all, if this website cant be found, nobody is willing to advertise on it. Second: It's need years of devotion in regards of being known and becoming succesful. If your website deliveres work when you advertise on it, people will come back. Always has bin.

Dutch are a bit different among others; what they dont know they dont eat. I'm in the works at this moment of writing to build a kinky platform, for 2 enterpreneurs who are pretty much dedicated to make it a succes.



The website is'nt the issue, a payment platform either. There are a few that i know that do accept adult but under strict conditions. Everything has to be legal and so does the documentation on these websites about it as well. A company name, a support number, a support email adres but also a terms and conditions. There are other payment providers that can give you carte blance in that matter, but they hook you up in a business case of 250 euro a month. So basicly in order to use their package your looking at 3k a year already just to run their software.

For a starter thats impossible, and in order to be succesfull you need a well strategy and marketing plan. I provide such and i do have some websites within the top 5 keyword of Prive ontvangst in Netherlands for example. I'm extremely strong in SEO in that regards, because i did build a network to support that over the last decade. For example Snacc.nl which is the old owner of sexjobs.nl, did outsource their marketing to me. And i provided.

There's a myth when people say oh we'll start a kinky or redlight competitor and we'll become rich!! Truth is your looking at a minimum 1.5 to three year plan here to really gain ground. You cant avoid the amount of media attention Kinky had and because of that they are authority in this business. In order to beat that you need money, patience and the right people who know what they do around you.

For a fact the people who bought kinky or complete midhold a few years ago, they where in the works to compete with kinky. Ive worked with these people for some time on a payroll, and they realised the magnitude they where up against, so they pretty much bought the whole package for quite some money. Fact was; they owned the payment provider kinky used. And the revenue, i'm not going to lie, was over quite some money on monthly basis. Saying that they hark in millions on yearly basis is'nt a joke.

Soooo it should be OK to host a site and earn money from that?

Yes, but you cant facilitate any means to underaged or illegal prostitution. You have your end to check and verify the people who make use of your platform. For a large platform like kinky or redlights there are ways for the police to verify and check on daily basis. And it's better to co-operate then work against them. We all want the same, a volantarily based business where woman choose for this profession. Not being extorted or part of human trafficking. At the end of the day, if you host your site in NL; the NL law is pretty much what applies here.

And in a way a website owner can be held accountable. In other country's the laws might be a bit different, for some it's so strict that only girls themself can advertise their services. Just do a bit of your homework and your good. Franly, the future of advertising is going to look like just directory's, large listings and any small site can eat dust to be honest. This is where google and their trend is leading to. I'm not joking.

And in order to succeed, well better start, and pack yourself with people who know what they do, have the knowledge and tools, and make sure they stay happy.

 

[2fawx]

While I like your undertaking, is there a reason it's just a Kinky.nl reskin...? Or is it just a prototype?

 

[Vanderlindemedia]

Prototype. The website is currently as we speak in the works.

It will be a advertiser platform followed with the option to buy credits, and spend these credits accordingly to automaticly be updated, highlighted and so on. There's a dutch payment provider behind it, taking iDeal, Mistercash, Bancontact, even 0906 or paysafe if desired. CC however is a different thing. There's much more to it obviously but thats what it is in a nutshell.

I make these websites for people who want to enter the market. It's all custom code, no wordpress nonsense, build for speed, safety and what more.

 

[Balthazar]

While I like your undertaking, is there a reason it's just a Kinky.nl reskin...? Or is it just a prototype?

Because from a technical point of view that website is ok.

It's all about marketing. Like VDLMedia said, people don't eat what they don't know. So people have to know it. That takes huge efforts and even with huge efforts time.

 

[Vanderlindemedia]

Ive had some people who fell flat on their face while running a market place like that. They woud'nt believe me untill they experienced it with their own eyes really. You have the existing brands like kinky, redlights, sexjobs and what more. Try to compete with that on a organic search level for a start. You wont in at least a year. They hold an extreme high authority. In order to challenge that you need marketing from simular high authority based sites. Now you can go on a cheap and attempt to establish links on your own, but that path is time consuming and you'll learn quickly that the efforts thrown at it gives very to little reward.

You could hire a marketeer; they will put cheap links on blogs blabla and over time your website is'nt getting the ground its supposed to have. I have an answer to that; your doing it the wrong way; your getting links from non authority places that have nothing todo with the service your trying to offer. In worst case it can actually nuke any organic positions because you wanted to pay for peanuts; you get monkeys (as we say). I have over 2700 websites that have age of 13+ years and they are extremely strong in providing me a solid base for my own but also for others who need that marketing.

Buying traffic is another option; but it's a repetitive cycle that will cost you more money on the long run then that it brings. Adsense is'nt working for paid dates; ive bin over 3 times in a phone meeting with some higher folks in Adsense about escort agency's in Adsense; sites with no breasts or nipples all customized, higher end eventually said "no" due to the paid dates concept. They have to obligde by US laws and they forbid kind of the paid dates. It's such a shitty condition. Try to advertise your Sex work on twitter as well; your getting banned now. Even tho even you attest that sexwork in Germany, Belgium, Netherlands is all legal, they wont listen.

Ive bin doing this for quite some time and with good results. I do linkbuilding for quite some brands, i wont name them all, but most of them people visit or do business with you can pretty much say that i'm behind a part of it. Building the website is easy; your looking at 2500 up to 5k depending on any extra work required; and you have a complete platform. You need to start filling it up; without content nobody is going to even bother look at it. Once thats done, marketing is key here. It's not strange to spend 5 up to 15k in 1 to 2 year basis really. Just spend it wisely and have some assurance that it does provide the results your aiming for.

Edit: Are you the Balthazar i think you are?

 

[veli]

... Just that I don't agree with "beating Albert Heijn with your local grocery" idea. I mean you have to start somewhere and if you come up with a better product I don't think it should be difficult ...

I laud your optimism and I admit nothing is impossible, but having a "better" product isn't necessarily going to win the battle. There are examples enough throughout our recent history of superior products that didn't get adopted by the market for one reason or the other.
And with the summation by @Vanderlindemedia , you should start to understand what you're up against in terms of overhead and general competition.


To really disrupt this market you would have to be very different and very solid in what you offer.

For example:

• Building a decent mobile website that has the look, feel and ease of use of an app.
• Implementing a service in to your mobile website to call directly, like a Teams or Google Meet, without having to use your own personal Whatsapp or phone number.
• Making good use of Google Maps api: You're somewhere for work and you're horny so you start browsing through pages. But what if you could preset your preferences, you open a map and you see dots of girls nearby according to those preferences. Or set your route home and see girls of your choice nearby that route instead of having to sift through every city separately. Got one that you saved as a favorite? Great, you'll see it as a star or something.
• Building a system where the consumer receives tokens based on how many ads he clicks or how much time he spends on the website (=based on ad revenue) or the option to buy tokens. These tokens can then be used as rewards for profiles; for instance a profile that has a blowjob video. You reward it with a token, and the prostitues can use the tokens to highlight their profile (instead op paying for it, which should also still be an option). You could also use those tokens to unlock some extra search options like "sort by most clicked or viewed" or "show profiles that have videos with sex" or stuff like that.
• You could also provide the option to open a sort of portal where you can buy used panties or whatever floats your boat. The incentive here being again that you award both parties tokens for using this portal. The seller should still be able to collect the full amount of money.
• and the list goes on ...

It may come as no surprise that I have also thought about building a competing website, but after analysis I decided it wasn't worth the time and effort. The ideas listed above are just that, ideas, with their own flaws and hurdles to overcome. Some will initially be geared towards attracting and maintaining your userbase and not for making money: the "portal idea" for example could definitely be slightly monetized once you've got a decent userbase.

The gist of these concepts is that you would really need to distinguish yourself from the competition to overcome it.
If you don't like my ideas that's totally cool, but I can promise you if you don't think alike that you will never make it. All you're going to accomplish is creating a website that does exactly the same as the ones that exist, without any incentive for people to create or consume the content.

At best you'll be able to play along, but you'll never win unless you think outside the box.

 

[Vanderlindemedia]

There's already a social media platform like you describe on tippelstraat.nl. Its of a collegaue of me. They've done years and years of coding into a platform like that. And 100k to 350k as a initial investment is'nt strange either.

There's some reasons to why a map with geo locations is'nt going to work. Privacy. I mean how many girls do you know that advertise their home adress where you can hop on by and have your go when you want?

A platform with rewards; even tho it sounds great i'm not the type personal to hang around on such platforms all day either. I'd just get straight down to business really and seek what i am looking for. I avoid websites that make it too difficult for my purpose in the first place.

If you wanna start, start small, and expand. Dont be giving out a mortage for a platform thats unsure of it's existance in the future yet. A good house is never finished either and the path to rome has different ways really. Midhold, former Kinky, had a complete staff on the payroll.

Everyone was responsible for their own duty, and that made it to what it was back then (or today). One did marketing, one did technical stuff, one did websites, one moderated, one assigned new girls or agency's or brothels etc. It requires a team. Even i as a fulltime 60 hour a week specialist sometimes have difficulties even getting shit organised. I got invited quite some years ago with the proposal to design and work exclusively for them. I denied, because, i saw more oppertunity in working for my own. And it packed out very very well.

I still believe in proper marketing. You have a product that people can find? Then your halfway through that door. I know because i exploit a few sites of my own as well on national and international basis. Paired with the power of my own marketing and networking, my work is pretty much already done for most of it.

 

[veli]

The maps thing obviously has the issue of privacy, but I didn't have the idea of pinpointing locations. More like general areas (neighbourhoods in a city for example, it gives a sense of direction) or you could even just use the general city and nothing else. The principle for finding girls on your route will still hold up.

As for your other remarks it's like I said, they are just ideas and I'm simply partaking in this healthy discussion. Obviously you've got more real world experience to assess what is feasible and what isn't so I wholeheartedly concur with most of what you've explained. Although sometimes being set in your ways can limit your out of the box thinking, but that's a whole other discussion!

More than anything I was trying to convey the idea that you need an angle because making the exact same thing as kinky, even though yours might be easier or prettier, isn't going to dethrone them. The sheer content they have seems insurmountable.
At best you'll be just another website to consult after I've browsed Kinky and found nothing to my liking.

 

[Vanderlindemedia]

I'm not just selling websites. I always tend to steer my client(s) because they are a enterpreneur just like me. You have to think that if they become succesfull, it's good for me as too. I'm not into selling a website once and hey goodbye goodluck in this pit of competition where you will not set a foot to ground in the next 2 years (lol). I'm always open, honest and my advice is for those who really want to be succesfull, and not people who just want to hear golden mountains but dont know what it takes. I've had quite of those people in my 13 years of experience and by now i can tell who's kind of going to make it within the first year or not.

As i said most of my clients are all enterpreneurs in the same boat, and they need the right one for the job. I've proven myself quite well over the years and knowing which names or brands are active within my portfolio, you cant deny. I'm just giving advise here and i'm always open for some new. I dont clone existing websites, all stuff is made "new" from scratch in this case and there is nothing Kinky even could do if they firmly believe hey thats our work. However you'd find some websites that share simuliar layouts or things in a different color scheme, but there's a reason to that obviously. If a client prefers a Kinky v5.0 with VR and other futuristic shit i can provide, as i have the best and most talented programmers behind me with a 85/hour rate.

Obviously i cant sell these things for a near 800 euro can i? Big projects require larger budgets. Kinky did had to start somewhere too; and thats what most people forget. Most websites are already shot down these days because people dont give a chance anymore. And there's obviously lots of outdated advertisements on alot of websites. But it has reason to it; if you list 400+ ads today and in a month you prune 300 ads due to inactivity, you'll not just lose 300 listings on your site but 300 indexed pages in search which could lead to a large amount of traffic to lose.

And the next new visitor will be like, what, only 100 advertisements on which 2 in my area? Byebye. Anyway; marketing is just key in anything. Not so long ago i got like 3 screenshots of another competitor that used the KVK to write letters to any possible sex business in The Netherlands to advertise their platform. Pretty clever, but when i saw the website, it was completely empty. Missed change. And it's on wordpress, which is slow once you start hitting 1000 visits a day and / or known to getting hacked. I woud'nt store one bit of personal information on that at all.

 

[veli]

I think you illustrate beautifully how difficult it is to get a foothold in this part of the industry.
Just to be clear I admire your work and knowledge, nowhere did I want to imply that you're just copying Kinky. More so I tried to highlight the fact that every website is going to look alike, for apparent reasons, and it's a long-term commitment if you want to outdo Kinky.
From my perspective, marketing alone is not going to be enough to give you the advantage.

 

[Vanderlindemedia]

If people remember, kinky was offline for a week or 2 ago for a full day. Here's the peak of traffic from that particular day to one of my own websites:



You can obviously guess how much traffic Kinky is doing here; and even if i would get 1/3rd of that, my mission would be already accomplished. Good advertising at the end of the day is over various sources, and not just one (like kinky) because they might be authority, but not the utter grail in this business. Sooner or later ill or a client of me will succeed. I'm watching day and night. Believe me.